Live 365. Your freedom's gone, your courage lost, you're no more than a slave. In this the land of the free and home of the brave. You buy permits to travel and permits to own a gun. Permits to start a business or to build a place for one. On the land that you believe you own, you pay a yearly rent. Although you have no voice in saying how the money's spent. Your children must attend a school that doesn't educate. And your Christian values can't be taught. according to the state. You read about the current news in a regulated press and you pay a tax you do not owe to please the IRS. Your money is no longer made of silver nor of gold. You trade your wealth for paper so your life can be controlled. You pay for crimes that make our nation turn from God and shame. You've taken Satan's number and you've traded in your name. You've given government control to those who do you harm so they could burn down churches and seize the family farm and keep our country deep in debt. Put men of God in jail. Harash your fellow countrymen while corrupted courts prevail. Your public servants don't uphold the solemn oaths they've sworn. And your daughters visit doctors so their children can't be born. Your leaders send artillery and guns to foreign shores and send your sons to slaughter fighting other people's wars. Can you regain the freedoms for which we fought and died? Or don't you have the courage or the faith to stand with pride? And are there no more values for which you'll fight to save? Or do you wish your children to live in fear and be a slave? Oh, sons of the Republic, arise, take a stand, defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the land, preserve our great Republic and each God given right, and pray to God to keep the torture freedom burning bright. As I awoke, he'd vanished in the mist for whence he came. His words were true, we are not free, but we have ourselves to blame. For even now as tyrants trampled each God given right we only watch him tremble too afraid to stand and fight If he stood by your bedside to dream while you were asleep and wondered what remains of the freedoms he fought to keep What would be your answer if he called out from the grave? Is this still the land of the free into this you guys? How does that go afternoon ladies and gentlemen? You're tuned to Liberty Tree Radio. We got some background there. We need to kind of squash on that. Broadcast to all points of the compass and to each and every one of our brothers and sisters behind the lines in hot-eyed territories. I would venture to say that I'll go out on a limb here and say I'm Don Betcher. And I'm our krunkie. One day closer to victory for all of our brothers and sisters, both on and behind the lines, occupied territories west, central, southeast, and north. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you were listening to us on LibertyTreeRadio.4MG.com. We're on AM&FM microstations, CB base stations, and ultra net technologies east and west of the Mississippi, along with Alaska. We're on the Hallmark Network from the top of Maine to the bottom of Florida. From the bottom of Florida across the arc of the Gulf of Mexico. Headed Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma, big chunk of Nebraska, a whole bunch of Wyoming to include both the 3rd to 5th of Pitt and our friends in the recall state of Colorado. Waiting until the left coast we turn back to the east. Weep across the plains, leap over the burgeoning banks of the Mississippi land of the Smokey slash the Blue Ridge. One of the restaurant crews, Grandma teams, OK teams and the Ma Bell Grammar Consortium are retired telecommunications workers bringing us the gold in the spike. Many hands make for light work a million Petticoat junction operators the ability to continue to function when everything else is offline. Well Don it is gray. It was clear earlier the geese are landing in our corn fields. They finally figured out there's some goodies left so we've got a few extra birds landing here and there. What is it like in your act of the woods, sir? What is the date today, please? Well, Mark, I'm surprised you asked me the date after this morning when I was reading from May. At any rate, today is the 30th day of April, the year of our Lord 2014, says so right there on the calendar. It's always good to look at the proper month of the calendar at any rate. Beautiful day here at the looks like it's gonna rain and then it sunshines a little bit and then it looks like it's gonna rain more than it does and then it stops and a beautiful day here but it is a particular day that strike down the middle of the week just urges me to introduce magazine to magazine well and touch the slide release and tell everybody it is Weapons Wednesday the perimeter is secure and you know there's plenty more where that came from. And that means we can offer equal opportunity of course. You know I want to tell you something here Again, being weapons Wednesday, we're going to focus on something with night vision here for a minute. We've got people that are deploying out west, not just in Nevada, but we're going to eventually be in the Texas frontier. We're going to be fighting in New York. Definitely in the cat skills, all kinds of strange places you've never heard before. We're going to look at rolling terrain and we're going to be fighting 24-7. Ground forces, operations on both sides. As we strip the dead, the enemy dead, we're going to be acquiring more and more newer technologies. That's just simply both day and night. You kill a guy during the day, you'll end up with his night vision during the day and be using it the next evening. So let's be prepared for this. Number one, try to familiarize yourself with as much in the way of the equipment as you can now. This includes going to YouTube, checking out all the videos. There's all kinds of promotional or brag up stuff. or its feudal resist you'll be absorbed BS well that's true so when you're wearing the enemy's equipment and you use it it should be feudal for them to resist because you can be plugging their arse just as fast as you can make them. They're doomed now. That's right they're doomed because you got their technology and it was the super you know super duper you know schmidlap 4000 or whatever. Well Don we're looking at a situation of course we we know what our conditions are you know as far as moon and no moon. Rolling terrain like you've seen with what's going on in the battle or let's say fall or spring like we have barren right now. What would we be seeing if we're looking at, say, the average mid conditions, a little bit of moon, and to what range? How far are we looking at? Let's start with our first generation piece of equipment. How far can we see? And if we were to deploy in high ground, what would be our area of control with a scope of that type? Then let's go to second and third generation please. If you can gain a spot where you can look a long way, that's one of the things I ask almost everybody that calls, what are your ranges? When you, you know, I get, well I'm here in Montana and I might be 50 yards and I might be 1500. Or I'm over here and man, it's 25 yards to my front door and 40 yards to my back door. And the rest of the place for miles is like that. It's not exactly like that in the desert. You can find places where in the daytime you can see for miles. Now, with a piece of night vision, you bring it up and it seems as if, even with a first generation piece, on half of a moon night or better, it does. It literally seems like you can see for miles. You can see the horizon. You can see the features of the land to a great extent, how they roll. But they'll farther and farther away become more and more limited in their definition because you're only looking at dots representing a picture. We've noticed this a number of times. That tank can be so far away or that vehicle size can be so far away that it only seems like a dot or three on the picture being very minuscule, but it will appear to be motion. Now, the thing about night vision, we've talked about this a number of times, you're not going to get 22 power night vision unless it's like on the turret of a tank and the lens is like 2.5 feet across. Well, maybe a foot and a half across because the more glass you put in front of an image intensifier tube, the night vision tube, the less light gets to the tube. When you're working in minimal light, you need every available Here's a Star Trek word, photon, you know, hunk of light. I don't know if it's a particle or a wave. I'm still not certain. I'm split on that decision. You need all of it to get to the image intensifier tube, the night vision tube. Now, at 2.5 power you think that it's not a lot of magnification, but if you can see to the horizon in the daytime and you double and a half it, wow, it's like I'm 2.5 times closer. Again, this goes back over and we talked on this the other day about what is in the field of view. If you have regular houses, it's easy to gauge distance. If you have regular, we've pointed this out in the night vision video, even 100 yard spacing on telephone poles. And wow, look how many of them you can count. Again, it's hard to qualify a visual medium in an audio world. Let's do it in graduations like this, Mark. Got a first generation device, be it a viewer or a gun sight. Now generally gun sights are going to have bigger lenses. They're going to gather more light. They want the device to perform to the best of its ability with a first gen 2-minute, which is again, old technology. But as long as you've got some moon in the sky, you'll be happy with the image that that device produces for you. By the time the moon is about gone, you're going to be itching to turn on the illuminator. Almost every piece of night vision I sell has an illuminator included in one way, shape or form. Most of them are detachable. Some aren't. When it comes down to simple viewers, they're built right in. Now, when you go to second generation, by the time the moon goes away, if you don't have any clouds in the sky, if you've still got stars, you're happy. You still have a good image. although your range will be shorter because there's just not as much light. By the time the clouds roll in, you're itching to turn on that illuminator, but the third generation device is still showing a usable picture. Granted, his range is shorter, but he doesn't really feel a need to turn on the illuminator. Now, you can get under, even with third generation, you can get into a Under a canopy, you know into heavy woods into a factory basement into places where there isn't a whole lot of you know Surrounding ambient light that illuminator would come in handy for first second third and even fourth generation in that in that instance Now what you would see you guys we've talked about deploying Markers to gauge ranges talked about that in a number of ways if it's just a range a hunk of rocks or it's a glow stick or it's a number of glow sticks and Night Vision isn't going...your green screen, if you've got a yellow glow stick out there or a blue glow stick, Night Vision isn't going to tell you the difference in the color, you guys. It's going to be bright. It's just going to give you an illumination marker. Let's remember that any kind of lighting, how we have to...well, we have to think with that. This is something that I've learned a long time ago, is your equipment gives you enough detail to show geometry. So, one of the things to remember is if you can create a marker or if you use a marker system out in front of you that is easy to discern and determine the difference between that and other illumination. It gives you, number one, a range marker with your fixed system and it then allows you to guesstimate based upon whatever other illumination device, you know, an LED, somebody lighting a cigarette. Whatever the distance between the two benchmarkers, if you use ranging LEDs or lights or simply lights or reflections that can be consistent and regularly in front of you within the field. That's a basic system that works quite well, doesn't it Don? Oh yes, you're right. As far as using illumination, by the time you have to start stacking things, But you guys, 0 to 100, 0 to 150 yards, you should have a 0 on the rifle there unless the rifle is like 1000. Okay, we're talking about what one might say, here's a phrase here, average combat ranges. Now we've talked about trying to keep your opponent at a good distance. When we talk about 2.5 or 4 power and night vision you guys, you'll see examples of it in the night vision video. in the right light, well you say that's not a whole lot of magnification but you can see the sway overpass and you can see someone walking underneath it in the shadow 987 yards with a second generation or a third generation device. That was gen... yeah, no problem. I got a first It depends on your light levels. If you've got a lot of moon you might be able to go beyond 200 yards. If you have a good contrast on your target compared to the background you might be able to go farther. Oh, okay, great, great. Just bank on them. Yeah, if you've got any kind of moon you could probably run around 100 yards. But again, that goes back over to night vision. It's not going to look through brush. Night vision isn't going to make camouflage, green screen isn't going to make camouflage stand out. We've addressed this in a number of different ways, but really lousy camouflage in the daytime. You just elbow your buddy and say, look over there, he's trying to hide at us, and then you chuckle at him and shoot him. Correct, but even second and third generation, if that person is in the right place or camouflaged proper, shadows, really darker shadows, he's going to be hard to see with a green screen. We've addressed this a number of ways. It goes back over to the light level, it goes back over to background contrast, your target to the background. And also the... Oh yeah. Thank you. I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, no problem. It's always good to answer a question. It keeps things moving in the direction of people. If you wanted that question answered, there's probably 20 or 500 people out there that were wondering the same thing. Cool. Alright. Well, great. Glad to be a service. Oh, no problem. God bless. Now. But when we talk, even for second or third generation, I can get your fourth generation, but we've addressed this, you guys, one fourth generation gun sight is just about the cost of two third generation gun sights, and a team that can look in more than one direction is going to be more than twice as strong. We've addressed this a number of times. Mark, it's raining pretty good here and I still have the dog outside. I need about 30 seconds, please. Go save the puppy! Yeah, I'll be right back. Go ahead. And we're on the edge of that too here, by the way, guys. We're getting that rain probably. It's coming in from the south and the west, so we've got to figure that's from the storm fronts that have pushed in from the Mississippi Valley. That's expected. We all knew this was coming. It's springtime here in Michigan. It's also another condition with night vision technology that has to be taken into consideration. But for that matter with all of your optics. Now we haven't really discussed this again recently, but look at the conditions outside, understand that if we get into a shooting war, and very probably we will, then we are going to be dealing with all weather conditions. Scopes and optics of all types need to be protected. and you need to consider the idea if they aren't already made actually making a shield slash camouflage cover I'll tell you what Gore-Tex material if you can find it laying around some piece of equipment maybe if you got a traditional older style surplus store where somebody's got piles of stuff they get junk from the government you know the DoD auctions Gore-Tex comes out in pieces or chunks and stuff where they've shredded things What you look for is a top or bottom and you cut yourself a Gore-Tex shield and cover. You can elasticize it or you can create ties so that it is secured to the device or secured to the optics. The other consideration here is also creating a little bit of a bonnet effect over the front and the rear because you're going to get beading. You can't stop everything. You get any kind of wind. Water is going to be coming in from all directions and all angles. Your conventional optics, your daylight type optics, which can still be used at night and the bigger the lens, the greater the amount of collection. Just be prepared for the probability that you're going to end up with beating and that you're going to have to have some form of damping cloth. You don't want to wipe. Remember you want to be very careful with any of your optics. If they're good glass, you don't want to scratch. If they're plastic, it's more sensitive to abrasion. So we want to be very careful there with regard to the equipment, but pretty much all of the stuff we're using, night vision or our daylight, is built to handle wet weather operations. To what degree varies. and there are ratings for this equipment. So we must remember that with that being the case, don't be surprised that some are rated better than others. It's just a matter of who spent what kind of money. Most of us... That goes over to a difference between weatherproof and weather-resistant. Yeah, it's kind of resistant. We're resistant. Well, it'll say stop for a little bit and then it starts. Well, that goes over even to dive watches. Not hardly a dive watch. Waterproof anymore. They'll say water resistant to like 600 meters Which is you know 1200 plus feet, you know most of a quarter mile, but oh no, that's 1800 plus feet 600 meters at any rate They just don't want to tell you it's waterproof. The same thing is in the night vision business right now You guys you'll hear a lot of particular gun sites are water resistant now about 2000 and 2 or 2003. I had, you guys might remember, I had available, there were 13 kind of prototypes. Water resistant mark to 13 meters. So they were water resistant to about 40 feet. So again, that was a purpose built. You could swim into an area with that device if need be. That was more targeted for the military. We put out of that 13, we put like four of those in the field. There were 13 built. of them into the field, into particular places where there's a lot of water. Let's leave it at that. Now, that's a good thing to address because you guys, we want to fight when it's wet and when it's dry and you know, when the other guys sitting there moaning because it's raining that's a good time to give them a hard time. Okay? Past the weather and the other guy that's moaning about it, well, you make them moan for different reasons, just for a little at any rate. Let's talk about daylight used into the edges of twilight be it dust. You guys, plastic lenses don't really work real well and if you've got a $10, $15 pair of binoculars you realize this. When you bring it up even to like a $120 rifle scope. The binoculars might have just as well a large focal, a large front lens. sometimes even as large as the gun sight that you're using to compare. More gun sights are going to have glass these days than plastic. You get down to like the $39 gun sights, you might have some plastic in there. You get down to low light. This is a good measure in how deep into darkness you can use daylight sighting devices, whether they're killers, monoculars, or gun sights. One of the things, we go back to magnification, one of the things that brings light levels down is magnification. So if you have an adjustable rifle scope, bring it down to your lowest level and you're sitting in a blind, you're sitting overlooking a ridge, you're overlooking an area of operations, bring up the plastic lenses in the cheap binoculars and look into an area that gives you good long distance and then look through the gun sight that has the glass. And you'll notice as it gets darker and darker the glass is going to bring more light to your eye than the plastic. So again, when we talk about monoculars or monoculars, spotting scopes or you know, hey if you've got five people in the field and one of them has a pair of monoculars, they're so early something. Even if they, if you've got five people in the field and you don't have one monocular, one telescope type of daylight, you know, distance vision device, something's wrong you guys. Because I hear a lot of people say, well here in northern Michigan, you hardly ever see any long, hardly ever get a long shot. Well that's not true. You make the shots. This is true. That's where I'm going. There are places where you can just hang out in the woods. And northern Michigan has been greatly altered by man. This is not one bit of woods from Lake Michigan over to Lake Huron. There are plenty of places where you can see for literally see four miles. There are places even in what one might call wilderness where you place yourself on the top of this ridge or on the military top of this ridge, this little hill, and you look down this long avenue, so to speak, in the woods. Just the way the land lays and anything that walks across there is targetable. Again, you can do this. Most of your ranges are going to be longer in the desert. That's a gimme. You can come to places where there's a group of scrub and it's just taller than you. Because of that, it's hard to see for a little while. When you walk through that, you're in some open area again. Or you look over there and for the next 700 yards, there's 15 or 20 of those trees. They look dead most of the year. But when the water comes, they jump alive. They've been there for 70 or 90 or 400 years. I don't know. When this leads over to another thought, It goes back to using natural things on the land, again, the rock formation. You guys, if even Nebraska, flat as they brag it to be, sometimes isn't exactly flat. You'll be rolling along down the expressway and looking miles ahead and then through the mirage rises a car because it comes out of that little dip in the road. Far away is that feature in the land. And when you move from area to area, if you have the ability as you move through there, you know, this is something, this leads me to, Mark, something we haven't talked about in a long time. And you've got the guy at the front, and he's looking for everything. They call him the point man, don't they? There are a whole lot of words for the guy at the other end, but one of his jobs is counting steps, isn't it? Why, you might ask. Well, we've got maps, and we've got compasses. I'd like to know exactly how far it is from here to here as we travel across the land. That guy might be making literally notes as they pass particular things. We pass this at step one. He has a measured step. After he's made a thousand paces, he just sets well. A thousand paces might come out to be 800 yards. If it's long open ground, and he knows the difference on this too because he's trained to this, If it's open ground, a thousand paces might be a thousand yards if they're moving, not running, but moving rapidly. So again, even as you're moving, you have people who are paying attention to the distance, even by counting it, aren't they? Now this seems to complicate things, doesn't it? Everybody's got a job to do, and you should probably have somebody else trying to count your steps too. Now it doesn't have to happen all the time and we do have maps and when you get to this intersection and where that bridge is on that river you kind of know where you're at. You most certainly do if you can read the map and you look up and there's the bridge and it says that river and that bridge and all those other things that you can identify as landmarks. But what if you want to stand off, what if you want to get to that bridge and now you want to stand off 150 yards or you want to stand off 500 yards. Now it's good to have that man who has a pace. Now it's good to be able to judge ranges both by your eye, by your pace, and mechanically. Look at it and judge it. Your spotter looks at it and judges it. He says, one number and you come up with another number, what's the number in the middle of those two numbers? And that's the number that you shoot at. Now that can become a finer and finer point as you work together and you become more adept at estimating range by your eye. When you look through your scope, wow, a lot of scopes these days have a ranging device, be it a milli radon system, aka a milli rad system, or another that might have hash marks with particular increments at 100 yards and just do the multiples. The night force has a hash mark at 2 inches at 100 yards. And there's like 5 marks or 7 marks above the center, and there's like 12 marks below the center. is capable of adjusting across the whole of that. So it's not like, well, you know, they're just there for fun. But if you know that it's two inches at a hundred yards, a thousand yards, that gives you what? Now there's formula for looking at the size of a deer, the size of a man, and calculating out that two inches at a hundred yards. So if you do it by your eye, naturally. By your eye mechanically as just mentioned with ranging devices. By your foot, you know, counting paces. Now we haven't thrown in lasers for ranging, have we? But you know that kind of draws attention too, doesn't it? And granted, just walking across the field, pacing out a range draws attention, doesn't it? Here's an example every now and then what happened to that guy that was pacing out inside the camp in that movie Green Berets. The big problem is, the most common problem is uniqueness because of power supplies, read that batteries. And obviously again if it's been run a lot and a lot and a lot, it's only good for so long guys, the tubes are only going to last so long. But a lot of guys have marshaled the time on the things. They actually knew back in the day to be cautious. Others have bought the stuff over the years. There's Vietnam-era stuff still coming back into the country. Now, that's got high hours on it typically because we gave it to the Israelis. We bought it, gave it to the Israelis, and they sell it back to us. Refurbished. Yeah, we get repainted, right? Yeah, exactly. Repainted with my speak tells and the old tube in it. God knows. I shouldn't say that. However, the big thing is again remember integrating these systems and overlapping your technology gives you at least a wave effect with regard to defense. Now your strongest pieces of equipment are not bunched up. This is the basic rule. What you do is create a deployment of your best equipment integrated through a fire unit of whatever kind. I don't care if it's a squad or if it's a platoon or whatever. And then the other pieces of equipment are bridged between the strongest pieces of equipment. In other words, if you arc out or if you arc in, Remember that the weapons were the greatest range in terms of night vision potential, which I would also recommend have the most powerful cartridge underneath the scope. And there's a reason. If it can see farther, don't you want to put something heavier out there on top of whatever it is you're aiming at? In other words, if it's going to be one hit, it should be a good hit. This is where the discussion about .308 or the heavy rifle cartridges over .223 or over .545 or .762 by .39. The lighter cartridges are fantastic and in fact in the intermediate ranges which at night as Dom has described are the typical ranges of engagement. The reverse philosophy is either putting a single bullet hard on the target or again throwing that drum underneath the magazine well underneath that scope and using it for area control fire. In other words taking that long range piece and putting it on what we would call a squad gun. Now that is another option and there again understanding that what you do, the other thing about that drum I know it's not the first best choice but depending upon the availability of night vision, the night vision weapons could also be tracing on target. Now this gets into another volume fire philosophy. In other words, on my mark, when I fire on this target, all individuals on the line will fire on that target and will engage with three rounds. You set up an SOP, three rounds or five rounds. into that target area left or right of the impact or on the impact is a policy because it may be variants anyway. Number one, perception from each direction will be different. Now the purpose behind this is to create an interlocking latus like a web, a kill zone of interlocking fires. Consider that if you have 10 men spread out 10 yards apart and they're across the front and you have one squad gun out of two, there's two squad guns typically in a full squad, And that squad gun goes bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, The objective is that for the amount of rounds expended, because immediately you'd be saying, well Mark you always talk about conserving. This is true, but remember we're looking for probability of hit in an environment where only a handful of the individuals may have the weapons technology we need to be able to see in the dark. What we're doing is taking them and using them like seeing eye dogs. allowing for us to control the area with all the rest of the squad interlacing their fires into that area for one three round burst or a five round burst, you have saturated and interlaced that area with fire. Unless there is a follow up by that gunner, then the gunner immediately changes to another objective target and then reapplies energy accordingly. If he has clear perception and clear identifiable target or an area target, say a fire team moving towards you, you have the opportunity, you're going to engage first. The shots have already been fired, we're at war. This is the equivalent to, again, a blind man's gun ambush at range. And the way to do this is, again, using those night vision devices, the two men that may have best eyes are the people who will again direct the fires. Now you will give whatever signal. Ideally it's something that does not require any sound or air radio but there are a number of different tricks that are used. Typically if you're in a gun interlocking ambush situation or at least in a frontal situation like this where it's a defense you're already on edge, you're already prepped to fire. The big thing is controlling the adrenaline rush staying low and on to the target. better to start slightly low of the impact area. And if you haven't seen what tracers do, I'm going to ask that you watch videos of the Nome Creek machine gun shoot and or anything with night fires and watch what tracers do when they impact in an area. It becomes very obvious that the gunner is signaling a particular target. You see how that works? You may get scuds where it bounces in and goes beyond and the trace continues. But that point of impact, if you think about what we're trying to describe here, that point of impact is your focal point for fires in that area, creating a cone of destruction. But instead of doing it with multiple fires from a belt-fed gun, you're doing it with the entire squad applying the same type of energy in a matter of moments. In other words, we're not going to dump a magazine. We are going to surgically apply energy in such a way that from 10 points, while you figure it out, 3 times 10 is 30 rounds applied. Now let's figure that we're going to add to that 3-3 round bursts or 3-5 round bursts so there can be 6 or there can be up to 12 more rounds applied from the primary gun. And since there will probably be another night vision device applied, that gunner is going to be more on target and will probably trace on target also. But if one gun is a primary, the second gun understands that it has... This means thinking constantly. The second gun is only going to apply three rounds. This is standard operating procedure. The gun that's applying energy and is signaling the target is going to fire more rounds to ensure that the target is confirmed. The other gunners, no matter who they are, will only apply three rounds to the target area or five rounds to the target area depending upon ammunition availability. Okay, that's the other consideration. What do you have to expend? This is a much more efficient way to engage fixed aggressors in an assault where they're trying to come in, again, at range. And their assumption is that your point of contact is going to be much shorter because you don't know how to apply whatever night vision you do have or they assume in their sitrep that you have limited night vision technology and will only be able to apply so much fire power to a set range. The Seeing Eye Dog concept allows you to pull all of your fires out to the maximum range of your best eyes. Think about that. And Don's Night Vision technology does that. So before we go any farther, Don, let's do this. You have night vision technology. If I want to get hold of you, how can I do that and what will I be able to get? Go ahead, please. Well, the phone number is 231796. 5'8". I know it's a primitive form of technology. It's not the telegraph over your phone in many and various forms. You can't tweet me and you can't pay. You can't do this and that, but you can call me. My number is 231-796-8458. We'll talk about gunsights or goggles or green screens or thermal. We can probably do that first generation gun sight 308 capable into next month for certain, you know, this month's gone, but for a week or maybe the whole month we'll see how that shakes down. But I know we can do it for a little longer because I had to talk stragglers. Now, that gun sight is 2.5 power. It's .308 capable. It's first generation. It's a purpose-built gun sight. It is again .308 capable. It's not going to fail from recoil. Don't put it on top of your .50 caliber or your 338 Lapua, more on that, those two particular chambering varieties later. Still get that, and still get that second generation gun sight, right in your mailbox for 1300. Now that's a big jump up from 375, but you guys, the biggest step up in performance is from first to second generation. We can talk about thermal, there's a piece of thermal I can put in your mailbox for $5 less than $2,000 right in your mailbox. If you want to talk to me about any of the aforementioned items, my number is 23179658. Again, 2317968458. Thank you, Mark. Hey, I was talking with someone just yesterday, Mark, and he was sitting right there, and his buddy was sitting over here. I was kind of surrounded, but they were friendlies. We were talking about guns. One of his buddies was thinking, well, I'm going to move up into the bigger Calibri world. It's a British word there. He wants to shoot in the .338 or the .500, the .50 caliber world. It came down to the choice between he wanted the .338 Lapua or he wanted that .50 caliber. I had no influence on this. They didn't come to me and ask. I would have told them, well, that .338 is supersonic to about 1,400 yards, which is plenty of good range, but it's not going to be as accurate beyond that. I would have told them that .50 caliber supersonic to about, depending on the muzzle velocity, to about 21 to 2,500 yards. It's still going to be supersonic, so that helps a lot in the accuracy department, because passing through the speed of sound kind of puts a wobble on the bullet, and then it might tend to wander off in a little bit of a different direction than you were aiming at. But the bottom line is he made the choice mark because the .50 caliber ammunition in the world today, he looked at the price of .50 cal and he looked at the price of the .338 Lapua and he said, man, that .50 cal ammunition is cheaper so I think I'm going to move into the half inch world instead of that Swedish .338 world. Just a thought there, you guys, sometimes money drives and right now that's the condition. .50 caliber bullets. complete cartridges, not just the projectile, everything from the primer to the case to the powder to the install bullet. 50 caliber cartridges are cheaper than 338 cartridges. I just thought I'd mention that one, Mark. Again, one thing to remember is that it sounds like someone is tailoring. Their interest is to pick to tailor the firearm of choice with a particular mission. Think about it guys. This is something we can do. That's the one nice thing about being in the militia and being an American. If we kind of like it, we go out and buy it. I've said this for years, we don't have to be wealthy, but one of the true example of freedom and liberty is if I want to go out and buy a boat, a ship, a plane, whatever, I can go out and buy it. I might be dirt poor and I may be running around in rags, but if I choose to make that my goal in life, that's my goal in life. Well, what's cool is you don't have to run around in rags to do what we're talking about here. We're selecting the best tool, or we're selecting and testing to see which is the best tool in the toolbox for the minisions that are at hand. There's a lot of unique calibers. One of the things that 338 Lapua is one of those rounds that has kind of risen in the last several years. A natural extension of the 338 Winchester round and in reality the reason you see these 400 like the 416, 417, 418, those are Rigby rounds. Those are the originally Rigby projectiles. That's why those things came about because in the big game, elephant hunting, rhino, capable hunting world, 338 and the 400 caliber cartridges were the kings, the top end guys. Now because of this, a lot of places where there were money, there were a lot of people that had a lot of different bullets produced by Hornady and by custom bullet companies to meet the needs. And in fact, a lot of people experimented. Typically, if you went into those calibers, you also went into reloading. And one of the reasons is because you wanted to tailor the load to fit what you were doing. Now, it's interesting to note, this is something we have talked about is we're looking at applied energy to those scopes, these night scopes, and discussing something that is kind of the reverse of what's going on here. Because we're looking at big bore cartridges that can reach virtually 1,400 yards, right Don? Oh! When we talk about that Lapua, but when we talk about the 50, we're talking about targeting accurately at a mile. Here again, what we're looking at, my point is that we're looking at cartridges that have a lot of energy behind them. Now, let's take a look at something real quick. I know this is a reversal on that. Again, we need more 50s. We need more 330s out there. One of the things that I think would be interesting is to go the other way that we were talking about, a modern chambered 4570 loaded with the low ballistic, low energy, high, you know, mid velocity, you know, formula, that night vision device would give us more than sufficient range, but for sentry removal without special audio control. In other words, no silencer. Guys, we were loading 45-70 with a 500 grain bullet that had less of a report than CB-CAP22. Firing right next to a 22, the 22 with CB caps in it with a single shot, you know, a sealed breach weapon in the 22 and a trap door 45-70. The 45-70 had less noise but was putting bullets on target at 100 yards in a quarter group, one on top of the other, bench rested. It doesn't matter if the locomotive hits you fast or low. Oh my god, it's a... plop. I think I even saw it coming, man. I saw it coming but it hurt, man. Well, the thing is that a 500 grain projectile going down range and then hitting and capping one on one round on top of the other, basically they all stayed with a half dollar group. But you're talking about, again, a very mild powder charge out of a little more than a carbine length 45-70 trapdoor Springfield rifle, no muzzle, no muzzle flash, and no audible sound. Just that brick like impact that the other yeah, now the wood line it yeah now combine that with that night vision device and put that on a target at night especially Where you can go back into the shadows Wow that might be nice that might be a nice combination to apply guys Hey, if there's no muzzle flash visible to the human eye you can see in the night vision video an SKS firing from a hundred yards away to a target that's about ten feet to the right of the camera. And when that gun fires, you just see that pinpoint dot for an instant, you know. But if there's no muzzle flash, that guy can continue to stay in that hard shadow and will not be seen even by night vision. Pretty neat. Granted, you don't want to stay in one place too long. We've talked, you know, that too long is a judgment call we've talked about in many different ways. One shot and move or sometimes two, very rarely three, kind of depending on, but you know, read about Dan Fong. Sometimes it might seem to be a shooting gallery, but even then, Fong kind of stayed too long, didn't he? Fire and move, fire and move, fire and move, fire and leave. That's the thing guys, although the attrition rate and the exchange was reasonable in the described battle, which by the way, there are variations on this. The important thing as Dom pointed out, as you said Donny, is to again, break contact, to be a warrior, to do it again. To not only inflict the initial casualties, but to do it yet again another day, or better still, how about we team up with just one more person. I'm about to do it all year long. Well, even in the book Patriots is what we're talking about guys. Surviving and Coming Collapse by James Wesley Rawls. An excellent example of how to use both range and terrain. But consider a second rifleman with a comparable weapon from a completely different objective. The two interworking could virtually dance a group of people. If they were on the offensive and you were in the defensive and had already chosen your points of motion, both could extract themselves from the situation. Better still is four men because obviously a shooter and his spotter slash security man which can suppress as you break contact. That's why he's carrying that rifle with the 75 round drum. and his objective is, you know, the last bit of spray and pray to make them think about whether or not they really want to move any farther while the heavy gun is being extracted and moved off of the battlefield and the last round fired even as it's fired, the other man's moving and already on his tail. Think about it. There are so many variations in how it can be done, but if you're by yourself and if you're buying time and if you were a rear guard, the sad part about it is the reality is rear guard, in many cases, was a sacrifice position. If you are they are eventually overrun. Yeah, if you're part of a larger group and in the case that was described here The idea is that his decision was to make contact and make the bad guys pay Well, like you said, Don, we want to do it all year round, don't we? That's the idea and next year too. Yeah, exactly. Go ahead caller. We have somebody there, please Yes, Fluffy. Hey Yeah Picked up the Mossberg 835 pump with a 28 inch ported barrel over the weekend. Unfortunately it's not suited for slugs but I understand that one of those long slug barrels can be amazingly accurate with slugs. Oh yeah, that would work. Again Don, your first and should handle the 12 gauge on top of a 12 gauge. That's what I've been told. That's what the company tells me. You want to show that gun up though. You want to get as close as you can to that boot, but you don't think you want to be right on that boot with a 12 gauge. You want to keep that wash, the green light on your face to a minimum, but you don't want to be right up to that boot with a 12 gauge. At least you're a rather fellow fluffy. Not quite that sad, but doing 3 quarter or maybe 3 inch wouldn't be too punishing. No. There's a, I think it's an H&R 4570 handy rifle in the paper for like $200 and I'm thinking about making an offer on that. As I also recently picked up most of an 8 pound keg of unique and I'm thinking that that might be a good reloading powder for that low velocity 4570 powder unique. We lost it there Fluffy, go ahead please. It's unique, that's the powder. Oh yes, very good. Yeah, in fact unique is one of those more universal powders that can be applied with a little bit of science to pretty much anything that's out there that can be shot. Hey Mark. Go ahead color. Unique's a bit. Oh, I, I, go ahead. That's the powder burns faster. Right, we're talking about doing unique things with it by dropping the charge way down and slapping the back end of that 500 grain bullet. That's why it is a unique situation. There's some experimentation we did years ago. That's what we're talking about. You've got the right idea. Under normal loadings, you're absolutely correct. You want a different burn formula. You want a little slower burn formula. And again, we're looking at large cases. But what we were doing is we wanted to come up with a formula, a combination with the large slug, with a 500 grain slug, 45-70 case. The idea behind this was to minimize the powder and drop the bullet down to sud sonic while producing no muzzle flash. That was the criteria. What we did was a 45-70, it was not a carbine, it was a cut down rifle to about half the length between the carbine and the rifle. It was a nice gun, in fact the guy still has it. He hadn't gotten rid of any of the 45-70s he got. In fact people try to buy them all the time because it's one of the earlier conversion guns where they switched out a 3 band Springfield and turned it into a trap door 45-70. The gun functioned flawlessly, but most important is that we worked out the formula with the weight, powder weight, so that upon capping the round, it slapped at the 500 grain Hornedie or Spear bullet downrange. We used a jacketed soft point. And the idea was to keep the group tight enough that again with iron sights, which is what we were using, we didn't do anything to modify the weapon, we would have no report and we had no muzzle flash. And that's exactly what it delivered. In fact, again with that 500 grain bullet at 100 yards, it kept the group within a silver dollar, a one, you know a Kennedy, yeah a Kennedy Eisenhower dollar. That's what I had in my pocket. and with a little bit of slivering like half mooning off on one side with one bullet but for five rounds loaded off the bench the other thing is that the 45-70 rifle was quieter than a .22 caliber single shot rifle with a CB cap and you know how quiet CB caps are guys you might as well have a silencer on There was just a little pop and that's it. There wasn't even that sound. It was more like a pop. I can't even make the noise. It was like you were popping your mouth but you know, like, nah, only when you're just so quiet that you wouldn't even notice it. You wouldn't even identify that there was a sound. and that was the extent of the noise. So it's a perfect combination for anti-personnel, sentry takeout and such, but the important thing as we've said many times is if we balance this out with a proper formula, we don't need a silencer. You know, we can do this with heavier bullets, lighter powder charge, subsonic. The other half of this is night fire. Again, the criteria that we had, we didn't have a night vision device to test this with at that time because this is opposed to Vietnam. But the big thing is that we kept the muzzle flash down under the logic that anybody observing an area would be trying to observe a muzzle flash, trying to see where the bullet came from. If it discharged and somebody were looking at that area, we didn't want to attract attention. What can we do to come up with a formula like that? Now, shotguns could be loaded the same way. The one neat thing is we have all kinds of unique wads that are out there, all kinds of different powders available. We just haven't really experimented in that direction, but there's no reason you couldn't take a one ounce slug and come up with the same formula for a 12 gauge. And it would be monstrous. Would you want to get I don't care if it's if it's just doing a little under supersonic Yeah, you would you want that big pumpkin ball to come down to hit you quietly at whatever velocity? I don't think I would it doesn't matter if the locomotive is going yes I've seen people when I were trains at five miles an hour remember those protesters the train still did just fine That's what we're thinking of, how to make it work. We've talked about this before, we can all come up with ideas. Everybody has different ideas. One cool thing about loading, it is a unique science, it is a special science where it is theory. It's always theory. We can always come up with different formulas and people, of course, depending on what they have available, have become very creative with the resources that are available. So if we're looking at conventional loading and it's putting a bullet down range, slapping the rear end and trying to perform within particular norms, then yes, we'll use the powders that would normally be required, but normally be expected to get the performance out of the gun. And to use the iron sights and to match up the existing loads for consistency, because we want bullets that will hit the same place over and over again from one factory to the next, hopefully, if we do it right. We could also do this with handguns. Although it would be really fun to do this with certain types of handguns that are single shot and sealed breech because there would be no... The only other consideration with revolvers is remember that when you have that jump from cylinder to barrel with most conventional revolvers, except for the nagot revolver, you'll have a certain amount of flier around the cylinder. No matter how hard you try, that exists. Now it can't be seen typically from the front, but it will be seen laterally from the sides. With night vision, that's where you would notice it. That's the only consideration why I keep qualifying this by using a sealed system. A single barrel old Iver Johnson shotgun would be a fun project gun. Another way to think about it is like this. Everybody loves this one. Boom! Oh look, a 40mm grenade. Because remember that you know the 40 millimeters nothing more than a hyperbore Big old single shot you know the m79 is the big old single shot shotgun guys, and it's using low Low-law energy high velocity formulas And even there, it's not going that fast. I mean, but a lot of guys got killed just by the projectile because remember, as we pointed out time and again, 40 millimeter grades should not activate until so many RPMs, so many spins, you know, so many cycles of spin to activate the onboard safety. So in many cases, if you're close, close, close, it's like a big 40 millimeter slug gun. Which I really don't want to get hit with either. It's like somebody, you know, again, Muhammad Ali punching me three times and whatever, you know, three times over in the same spot only so fast I can't count it. Anyway, go ahead, call us, please. I'm sorry, jump in there. We're almost, well, we're a little past the top, actually. I was starting a load of about 15 grains of unique would be a good place to start. The way to do that, if you want to start with 15, as you know, do three instead of five rounds. I believe that with unique, between 15 and probably 23 grains. And again, you've got the right idea. Start low and see what your strays look like. Benchrest it and then work your way up a half grain at a time or a quarter grain at a time. Sound good? Hey Mark. Okay, Carl, go ahead. Mark, this is Hubert. I'd like to call you after the second hour.